What makes us attractive––to ourselves and to others? And what happens when we cover up all the mirrors in our house for a week? (But leave one uncovered for the cat, because that’s just too fun to watch:))
Anne: 00:01 Hi, Thea.
Thea: 00:02 Hi Anne.
Anne: 00:05 So this evening, we are going to follow on last weeks. We were talking about image versus essence. We were talking about this trend toward cosmetic enhancement and what seems to be an overemphasis and an inordinate value placed on appearance of youth specifically versus, you know, our natural physical aging and all the good stuff that comes with that, which is wisdom, experience, I think authority.
Thea: 00:44 And ease. I would throw ease in there.
Anne: 00:47 And ease. And confidence. Definitely ease in our being. We’ve been here for more times around the sun and the more we’ve done it, the more comfortable we are in encountering challenges, obstacles, and all of those things that life presents. Right? So that’s a lot to embrace. And, and so we had had a lot of conversations afterward with friends and folks who had watched it and weighed in. And my friend Tina, for example wanted to make the point that it’s not so much for her about what others think of us, what, how others perceive us––but how she looks in the mirror matters to her, she feels. How she looks to herself helps her feel one way or another about herself, comfort in her own skin or not. And that led to a discussion we want to have. You’d mentioned this last time. What, what makes us feel attractive, right?
Thea: 02:04 And what do we find attractive? And where does that stem from? How do we cultivate it? Because we all like feeling attractive and we all like to be attracted too or from.
Anne: 02:18 Yes, yes, yes. We like to try attractive and attracted. Yes, indeed. So what makes you feel most attractive?
Thea: 02:35 So what does make me feel attractive, and what makes you feel attractive? Feeling energetic, feeling vital, feeling a sense of power and a sense of ease. I think those are two things that I feel good in myself when I feel those things. I mean, the very clear distinction would be if I’m ill, we don’t feel attractive, right? So when we’re feeling alive to the world and that comes in different capacities and through different channels at different times. Sometimes it’s––feeling a real strong sense of purpose gives me a sense of vitality and powerfulness and capacity I think.
Anne: 03:33 Ah, yes. Yes. Well capableness, even. Right?
Thea: 03:38 Yeah. Yeah. Feeling capable. I mean that’s where the power I think is, really, is feeling capable to meet what comes and what presents itself to me and I was going to go somewhere else too. Now I don’t remember. Maybe you have something else to throw in there.
Anne: 03:57 No, I mean, you know, what makes me feel attractive? You know, I think I probably feel most attractive when I’m less aware of myself that way or other. When I’m in it, when I’m present, when I’m connecting very much with someone. When I am doing what I feel my purpose is to do, when I am living my purpose, when I, when I am following my passion in whatever way that manifests. When I am, I mean, and I don’t want to sound contrived. I was just thinking when I am involved in something––I’ve been involved in causes that are larger than myself. When I’m involved that way, I feel vital and right. And yes, powerful. All of those things that you mentioned. When I am helping people. A couple of days ago someone was in need and a few of us were helping that person in need. I think that that like purposeful when we’re all working together to help someone out.
Thea: 05:31 Capable. Meeting what’s in front of you. So it’s interesting as you know––speaking about what makes us feel attractive––it’s about being necessary, needed. These are the things that give us that sense of being appealing because we feel like we’re fulfilling purpose.
Anne: 05:57 Significant! We feel significant, we feel significant to whatever it is we’re bringing ourselves to.
Thea: 06:10 And then, I mean, and then that leads me…you know, of course those things flow easier for me when my body feels healthy and strong. When I’m rested, when I have a good rhythm in my life. So health, feeling healthy allows me to fulfill my obligations, allows me to fulfill them beyond the base minimum or the bare minimum. Into, like, giving my inspiration, using my inspiration, being inspired. So really, so I’m thinking attractive to me is synonymous with good. Feeling good. Right?
Anne: 06:58 Yeah. But I also really like what you just said––inspired. I mean that kind of encapsulates everything that we were just talking about. Feeling inspired.
Thea: 07:07 And that can happen through my own work, through whatever it is that my passion or my sense of purpose and meaning comes. It can also come through ignited moments with other people. Right? And that can come in different forms, can come through conversation, can come through appreciation of something beautiful together with somebody and seeing something with someone else.
Anne: 07:37 Yes! And that’s what I was talking about with that connection. That I think that’s one of the biggest things that’s attractive to me in other people is a connection. You know, I mean, that only makes sense, right? When, when we’re on the same wavelength or if we’re on the same big wavelength together or something and meeting each other there and they’re seeing what I’m seeing and we’re back and forth, that’s very attractive to me. Right?
Thea: 08:06 Yes. And I would add to that, the other thing that makes me think or find someone attractive is when someone IS capable, when someone is in their own purpose and when someone else is fulfilling their destiny, or searching or seeking to fulfill it and is finding their own inspiration. That draws me to them. Because there’s something happening in that.
Anne: 08:38 Yes. It’s dynamic. But, but also when they’re doing it in, in such a way that is without self-consciousness. Right? And that’s, that’s when courage, I mean courage is attractive in many forms, but when someone is seeking, when someone is trying, when someone’s doing, when someone is exploring, that’s all very attractive. Right? And you know, and then in terms of like, you know, just the requisite list of what do I find attractive? And let’s, let’s acknowledge that we’re women, right? And, and women are different than men which is the age old thing. And I don’t know what it’s like to be a man, though I’d say, I don’t know, with different hormonal changes or whatever as I get older, you know, I can get us more of a sense of where they’re so drawn and driven aesthetically, sometimes, but stillwe’re different.
Anne: 09:41 But I also want to point out that that article that I had written about wrinkles and gray hair means we’ve arrived––I got a lot of good feedback from men who expressed that they, they don’t like the fakeness either. That’s not important enough to them. But there are so many other aspects of a woman that are what draws them. Right? And vitality and health of course, right? It only makes sense for all the reasons you mentioned, but but back to what, what I find attractive is the mind, you know, I’m, I’m into the mind, I get drawn to, to people’s minds. I get drawn, like I said, to, to the connection. Certainly ease and confidence in someone is very appealing. I have had many relationships in my life and there’s not been one particular type. There’s been different different sizes and, and colorings and features and all of those things, right? And because it comes––that attractiveness and sense of oneself, self-possession––comes in many forms, right?
Thea: 11:20 So, attractiveness, you know, sense of beauty and the lack of consciousness about how one is beautiful in a moment––is what’s beautiful. But as soon as there’s that awareness of how beautiful one is, it’s affected and it feels unattractive in like a moment. So it’s a funny, funny thing that can happen, which I think kind of led us into a little bit of another conversation tying all of this into parenting a bit in terms of how to allow our children to grow up without this scrutinizing self-consciousness––which, which comes in different phases and at different ages anyway coming into becoming. But the lack of, of having lots of mirrors for children to be studying themselves. Because if we get, I mean, I’m thinking of myself as an adolescent right now and there is this, there was for me a period of like really scrutinizing myself in a mirror, which, which was never pleasing. I mean, it, it never made me feel better. Well I remember some conversations with you, but I won’t bring those on here.
Anne: 12:50 Are you thinking of the…
Thea: 12:53 Totally. Hilarious. But you know, it’s, it’s about getting outside of ourselves. Cause when we go into ourselves, we, we become less happy. I mean we can take that into talking about when one feels depressed. I mean, I remember adolescence and having that feeling of depression. And that was when I was focusing on myself. So much. So it’s like getting outside of oneself, we become more beautiful and we become happier, which those are like two sides of the same coin anyway. And, and so thinking about our children, not having photographs of your children all over the place in your home because we are not these finite beings. We are more than that. Right? And that’s the thing about this, when we’re having, you know, artificial work, I can’t remember what the word was
Anne: 13:58 Cosmetic enhancements.
Thea: 13:58 Cosmetic enhancements. That’s working just with this finite physical being, which is not the thing that makes us attractive. I mean, sure, there are moments, there’s classic, you know, there, there are beautiful features, but it becomes more and more apparent as we live that it’s what’s coming through this being that we find appealing or not.
Anne: 14:23 Well, you know, let’s also recognize the fact that there’ve been different definitions of what beauty is in the first place. Right? So, so yes, what’s coming through us probably is more what drives that rather than the other way around. Right. Perhaps so happened to be that what was coming through certain folks who had certain features and, well, the big breasts makes sense. That’s fertility. But you know, the lean athletic versus the round…
Thea: 15:07 Voluptuous.
Anne: 15:09 Yeah, it all changes. It goes back and forth. And so, yes, perhaps what drove that is that a lot of the doers, the figures of the time, resembled that instead. Right?
Thea: 15:22 Or what impulses were needed in different times. Was it more of a softening, comforting, gesture to a world that was suffering or was it like, get shit done. So that’s an interesting picture.
Anne: 15:42 Right. But back to what you mentioned about the photographs for example, I mean, I remember being, you know, again, you being my parenting mentor and you making me aware of the fact that taking shot after shot of your kid at every angle at one, at two or whatever, and putting them up on the wall. It’s like first off, it pulls the kid out of themselves once they become aware of the camera in the first place, right? Second, then they’re looking around at all of these stages of themselves, which are not them anymore in the first place. So, you know, just seems to muck things up. The mirror thing, which followed on a conversation I had with Tina, it’s like, it does start making me wonder. Has this trend toward image and appearance come along with this age of abundance and materialism where we just have so much stuff, which means we have mirrors all over the place. And then go, go beyond that to Hollywood celluloid and the emphasis on image, and then of course TV. And then now digital cameras and smart phones, surveillance. You know, you’re on camera all the time. So has that been what has driven this and, and perhaps we need to take a step back and more consciously figure out how to––amidst all of that, amidst living in a fishbowl––make a conscious attempt to remember, remind ourselves that that’s not necessarily what, well, that’s not all we’re about. Right?
Thea: 17:42 Thank goodness.
Anne: 17:45 And then the final thing I’ll say that struck me as you were talking is, you know, we’ve talked about confidence, ease in oneself being in that moment that, that beautiful harmonious moment of just purpose and doing. That is a very attractive quality in anyone and to ourselves, for ourselves. If we are spending a lot of effort and time on contriving ourselves…
Thea: 18:23 On the artifice…
Anne: 18:23 Then not only do we know that, and that ultimately might not make us feel so confident and at ease with ourselves even when we’re looking in the mirror, right? Because we’re seeing that insecurity manifest. And this, that fixation that self focus. We’re seeing that self focus manifest on our faces when we do cosmetic enhancements, makeup, whatever. But other people do too. Right? It’s revealing. It’s revealing and when we get a little too hung up in ourselves, that reveals itself and that doesn’t move us toward attractiveness to ourselves or to anyone. Right?
Thea: 19:27 I would even then just add, it’s like, you know, our good efforts, our true and good efforts not only ripple out and are attractive to our friends, our partners, ourselves, but it’s good rippling into the world. You know, those moments of, of ease and wisdom. That’s good for all. Right? So, so that attractiveness is not just an attractiveness of mate to mate or whatever, you know, it is a ripple into the world.
Anne: 20:11 It’s moving out into the world rather than getting fixed in here and contracted. It’s expansive, right?
Thea: 20:19 It’s expansive, yeah. And growing and reverberates, you know, and those are things that make us feel good, you know? I feel good when someone else is rippling into their goodness, you know? And that comes back and forth and those things expand all of us into something bigger. Than just our own small self.
Anne: 20:46 Yes. Okay. All right. Well let’s wrap it up with that and so maybe the point to remember and practice a bit is to evaluate whether or not––don’t put a lot of thought into it––but it’s like these efforts that we’re putting into appearance or whatever, does it ultimately make us feel good? Do we actually ultimately feel good? Does it feel good and right?
Thea: 21:19 And, and then, you know, depending on different people’s habits, you know, I see myself in the morning when I brush my teeth before I go to school or work or out. But otherwise I don’t really see myself much during the day. So maybe even just taking note of how often you see yourself or see reflection of yourself.
Anne: 21:42 Put the mirrors away! Cover them up. Do a one week experiment. Cover up all the mirrors in your house. And see how you’re feeling about yourself after that.
Thea: 21:56 Yeah. It might be, it might be an interesting thing. I remember doing that at different times.
Anne: 22:03 ‘Cause You got so caught up in your?
Thea: 22:07 I think it was when my kids were young, I just kind of…
Anne: 22:10 Exactly. Oh, now I remember. Yes. You did. Just to, to not distract them with all of that, right?
Thea: 22:18 Yeah. I mean, you know, it’s good to try. But it is fun to see a cat find themselves in the mirror. So I remember seeing that too. That’s pretty fun.
Anne: 22:25 Yeah, I get it. I get it. Okay. I was going to say one thing about my kids, but now I was, I was reprimanded for sharing too much about my kids, so I won’t, but, kids in mirrors sometimes…I’ll just say this. I remember being a kid and crying and sobbing in the mirror. And watching all of my expressions. Right?
Thea: 22:48 I think I remember seeing you do that, actually.
Anne: 22:55 My sidekick. Alright. Well, thank you so much for fitting this in. See how this one goes. Love to you. Love to everyone. Love to you, Tina. Okay, bye. Hang on a sec.