Our response to challenge and change is informed by our perspective––are we part of an infinitely complex, purposeful design or is our existence merely accidental?
Anne: 00:00 Recording to the cloud. So we’re doing this a little differently this time because Thea’s here, we’re hanging out, and we’re very relaxed here in a circle of redwoods. So what we’ve been talking about is how we respond to change, responding to change, responding to challenges, obstacles that life presents us with and recognizing that something helpful to inform one’s experience in reacting to change is to recognize that this is either intended to be a school or there’s certainly opportunities to learn and grow from these experiences and that it makes it much easier to move through without resistance, as much resistance––or to move through with more grace, to move through with a focus on understanding the experience as much as one can and moving through it rather than resisting it or dwelling…
Thea: 01:30 And even moving with it while it moves through, I think, is something as opposed to resisting, but to be able to see when there are these obstacles or challenges that come into our lives that are pushing us into areas that are more uncomfortable or unknown, how to sort of listen to the signals, listen to the current that’s moving with you and use the current to continue your movement wherever it is your goals are or…destinies as opposed to trying to turn around in the current, as opposed to pushing past it. I don’t know. I’m losing the analogy.
Anne: 02:28 No, I agree. I mean…
Thea: 02:30 …Which allows for a bit more harmonious, enjoyable moving down…
Anne: 02:35 You also have the opportunity in that then to find your true path. I mean, it rarely looks exactly like you thought it was going to look like, right? And so to be open to the possibility that you’re being redirected in ultimately a positive way, if you can just kind of work with it, you know?
Thea: 03:05 Right. That what comes to you is of a good nature and you are to find ways to work with it. To continue your becoming.
Anne: 03:17 Yeah. Right. And even the things that come to you of a bad nature, we can speculate that that will assist our growing as well. Depending on how we respond to it, and identify and recognize it.
Thea: 03:29 Well that’s what I’m saying––how we respond to it I think is what makes it good or bad, more than it may be. That’s what I’m just wondering. It’s like everything that comes up is there to show you something. Now it may be that you veer a little bit away out of that sector, you know, maybe it shows itself so you can go, “Oh, I need to reroute a little bit like this.” But that everything that comes is of a nature that is there for you to see and to utilize it, is basically what you’re saying.
Anne: 04:03 Absolutely. I mean, I don’t think we’re here by accident. Let’s put it that way. Or you can choose to, you know, live that way. Good luck. You know, if you think that this is just an accident, I don’t know, whatever works for people. But it certainly resonates much more for me and makes much more sense to me that there is a purpose to it because whatever I observe around me demonstrates that there’s a perfect purpose to everything, you know, to the interaction of, you know, these trees to the earth, to the earth to us, us to the trees and all. It’s a pretty perfect design. So the idea that we’re some accidental blip in it sounds ridiculous, but anyway.
Thea: 04:54 Sounds just preposterous.
Anne: 04:54 It’s like the most make-believe fairy tale, right? That doesn’t make sense. That sounds like fiction. Anyway, we’re getting off on a tangent.
Thea: 05:08 A little bit. So it started with, how did we start this, finding grace in the movements and change of life.
Anne: 05:16 How we respond to change, basically, and what can help us, what can inform us?
Thea: 05:22 And we can take that to an analogy of birth a bit. I mean it’s a little bit like, here comes the next phase. It’s uncomfortable and difficult and scary, cause you don’t know. It’s, I think, what did I say last conversation we had was it’s unbelievable, the space that you’re being asked to go into. You don’t have a reference for it. You don’t have anything you can liken to it. And then still the only way through it is to unfold a little more.
Anne: 06:00 Well the only way through it is forward. That’s the main thing.
Thea: 06:04 Forward. But the forward comes with a pushing. There is a pushing, right? And there is a contracting, but simultaneously there’s an opening, there’s a letting go in the contracting. So you’re having both those forces at the same time, practically. Right? This and this. The gloves, sorry.
Anne: 06:27 No the light’s moving. It’s a pretty light, but it’s kind of like…can’t see us at all.
Thea: 06:31 Blinding?
Anne: 06:35 Oh, look what happens there. When I do that and move it slightly. Let’s see.
Anne: 06:40 This is to continue on from where we were because we started building on this.
Thea: 06:47 And we wanted to clarify and explore a little bit more what we were discussing about when something comes. That essentially the nature of reality, what comes to us, what thoughts, what challenges, whatever it is, is good. And that doesn’t, it’s not, or maybe it is the same as “It’s all good man,” because it is, but there is distinction.
Anne: 07:18 So my point was like, I’m loathe to get into, you know, relativity because I think that can go astray so quickly, but like we were touching on in the discussion sometimes yesterday. I sense, I’m eager to get beyond the duality, too. Like, there’s more to it, there’s more dimension here. And so I think you talking about then accepting that the ultimate nature of reality is good. Well, and is God right?
Thea: 07:52 And is God. And so that that comes, is good. And it’s in how we meet that which comes, that determines our experiences of good or bad, but the good is there as the foundation of it. And so do, do we struggle with it? Do we rail against it? Do we look at what it’s asking us to bring, to show, which then allows the good to come. I mean, I don’t know, I felt like I was more clear about it a little bit ago, but there’s, there’s like the layers of it as they come to us. It’s like the underneath current, that which is existing all the time. That is good.
Anne: 08:45 And that’s what I feel like it relates to the whole point of me saying, you know, I don’t believe we’re accidental. You know, the idea of us being accidental, of there not being an infinitely complex plan at work or design at work seems absurd––I think if you’re walking through life fairly aware.
Thea: 09:07 I mean, and then if we even think of just an ultimate-ish plan being the macro of the microcosms that we’re living in every moment, I mean.
Anne: 09:18 It all contributes, it’s all part of it. Existing on so many levels and layers within ourselves, within our stages of development, of humanity’s development, within every and all. It’s complex. But I suppose what it comes down to is, you know, I think probably it’s looking at it one way or the other. It’s either that this is by design and therefore purposeful. Every moment is an opportunity to act with purpose.
Thea: 09:54 True. Yeah, I think that’s huge. That’s liberating. That’s empowering. That’s everything really. Because if all those things, I mean, and I’m even talking like the little thoughts, you know––and we’ve shared this living and knowing each other for so long––you know, if you’re leaving the house and there’s that little blip that says check, check if the whatever, the window’s closed or the fire’s off or grab your keys or grab a hat. Those times that we don’t listen to those little things, we then look back and go, Oh, I did know. I’m taking that as the thread of all of it because it’s there.
Anne: 10:44 It’s intelligence. There’s an intelligence there.
Thea: 10:44 There’s an intelligence and intelligibility. It’s there for us to pay attention to or to ignore, and that sort of sets our route.
Anne: 10:53 And so getting back to moving through challenges, meeting challenges, how we face our obstacles and move through life. That is what sets the tone. That is what informs the way we do it.
Thea: 11:12 Yeah. And is it purposeful? Is it meaningful? That depends on what we choose, like how we’re able to perceive it because it is, we’re either aware of it or we’re not.
Anne: 11:26 Right. And probably learning and growing either way. Right? Hopefully. Sometimes we can get pretty stuck.
Thea: 11:38 And God, I mean, It’s like even those getting stuck, Oh, we were likening this to an analogy of birth later on in our conversation. We didn’t get there yet, but even that, right? Is there some something that getting stuck for a moment and then you find a new route through it, but you have to sometimes surrender then to that being stuck. I am stuck, and then something else can move or you can get back into the movement or be picked up by the movement.
Anne: 12:12 Well because you know, a theme that has come up in other discussions I’ve had recently is just that everything is moving, and so it’s when we try to when we put on this pretense of it being static, it makes the whole thing way harder, right? It’s always moving. So we just have to––I mean this sounds, it always gets down to the platitudinal, trite cliches.
Thea: 12:50 Well there’s truth in those.
Anne: 12:50 Yes, they’re here for a reason, but that’s the “going with the flow.” And you know, I don’t mean it in that way.
Thea: 12:58 Well, here’s the thing though, as you were saying, being static, being without movement, that’s what creates the static and what earlier in some conversation we were having, I was thinking that’s part of––oh, talking about the birth or the moving through obstacles, the unfolding or the shucking off of that which is staticky. Like those little pieces that aren’t in the flow. The more we let go of those with less and less of our own resistance to them being let go, the freer we are in that flow, the more strong the current is and the clearer it is, whatever it is, however, moving.
Anne: 13:42 Totally. Well that’s also you know, it’s casting away expectation of what one thought it was going to be, look like, or whatever. That’s one thing, is being able to do that quickly. It makes you get through things a lot more quickly and more easily I think with less resistance. But also, it strikes me to then bring up the fact, the importance of then what foundational principles are you holding onto? Because we have to hold on to something, right? To get us through whatever it is. So what is the foundational principle that allows you to just with grace, with dignity, with courage, with faith, faith, faith. That’s the biggest part of it, right? With faith. So are those? Those are the foundational principles, right?
Thea: 14:39 Like every religion has these tenets, ways of being that you hold onto. And so those are the framework. Those are the structure. That’s like the bones of it all for everything else to work around.
Anne: 14:57 Exactly. But you know, the words can stop losing their meaning. Right. And that’s the problem with organized religion.
Thea: 15:06 And that’s why there are aspects that we’ve had conversations about. It’s like we’re in a time of developing a new language. Language is constantly moving because things start to mean different things when they lose their, their root to the meanings. So sometimes we have to find ways to revitalize those meanings. And even maybe it’s just bringing the depth and breadth of these things to go with the flow. I mean all these phrases. They’re all in it.
Anne: 15:45 The Tao, yeah. I think we should cut it.
Thea: 15:58 I think it’s done. I think it’s done. Yeah. Well, there might be more thoughts that come up.
Anne: 16:03 There may be! All right. See ya folks.